In this interview, Father Philip Larrey, the Dean of the Philosophy Department at the Pontifical Lateran University in Rome, sat down with EWTN Vatican Journalist Benjamin Crockett to discuss the intricacies of artificial intelligence (AI) and its broader impact on society today. Highlighting the evolution of AI, ethical considerations surrounding its use, and the role of the Catholic Church, Father Larrey provides a thought-provoking perspective on this rapidly advancing field.

Benjamin Crockett: Father Philip, thank you so much for joining us today. As the Dean of the Philosophy Department at the Pontifical Lateran University in Rome, could you please explain what artificial intelligence is and how you initially became involved in this field?  

Fr. Philip Larrey: Artificial Intelligence is a series of algorithms that use logical calculations to achieve program results. That is a bit of a simplification of what this software is actually doing, but it responds to the nature of the machine. Artificial intelligence may not be the best term to describe this series of calculations. It came about in 1956 with John McCarthy in Dartmouth, New Hampshire, who organized a conference on machine technology. This was, obviously, a very primitive technology at the time. However, because they were able to construct a Turing machine, which uses binary digits – ones and zeros in a symbolic language to refer to truth and false, respectively – well, they were able to make a machine use logic as human beings do. Now, this was impressive, and what the machines can do today is even more so, but I wouldn't call it intelligence. I would call it something else. However, the name stuck, so now we are all talking about 'artificial intelligence.'  

BC: In 2019, you published your book "Artificial Humanity." I recall reading it and being captivated by the questions you posed and your perspectives on how AI will reshape our relationships and society. Given the significant developments since then, what do you think has driven these changes?

PL: I think that the large platforms are developing these technologies at an increasingly fast rate. The most famous and best program out there now is ChatGPT, which is the artificial intelligence project of OpenAI. However, other programs are coming out within a few months., I was told, when I was in San Francisco two months ago, that these new programs will make ChatGPT look like primitive software; they're going to be more powerful and be able to do more things than ChatGPT. Given that we all know about ChatGPT, and many of us use it – even my students – I think it is the most relevant example; it is a  powerful artificial intelligence program with practical applications.  

BC: Father, I'd like to share a somewhat amusing yet disheartening anecdote. I recently spoke with a friend who attends MIT. He told me about a classroom where brilliant individuals work on mathematical problems. These individuals appreciate the artistry behind computational mathematics. However, they struggle with engaging in conversations with the opposite sex. To address this, a psychology teacher asked them to approach someone in a social setting and to initiate a conversation while also considering it from a mathematical perspective. Interestingly, these students obtained phone numbers and began texting the individuals they met. Eventually, it was discovered that both sides were using ChatGPT to generate their responses—AI systems communicating with one another. This story symbolizes the potential of artificial intelligence to facilitate communication and problem-solving but also raises some serious concerns about humans being excluded from the equation.

PL: Yes, that's not healthy. Years ago, Spike Jones made a movie called “Her” with Joaquin Phoenix in which Phoenix falls in love with the voice of Scarlett Johansson, which is his operating system. I do think that it was a prophetic movie. Joaquin Phoenix plays the character of someone who has difficulties relating to women and then finds that relating to this artificial intelligence is much easier for him. And, of course, the artificial intelligence learns how to make Joaquin Phoenix fall in love with her, and then at the end, she leaves him, which is, I think, kind of a prophetic message also. Let's not be too enamored with technology to the extent that we end up being sad;  – we end up losing part of our humanity.  

BC: Considering the current media discourse and widespread fear surrounding AI, there are concerns that human flourishing might not be at the core of technological advancements. What gives you hope in this regard, and what are your genuine concerns?  

PL: The problem is about control. How much control do we have over these programs? In ChatGPT, the G stands for generative. So, what's taking place is that if these artificial intelligence are learning (if we want to use that word), growing, and expanding on their own in such a way that we don't even know how to map out., So, even the engineers need to figure out how ChatGPT is solving some of the problems they give it. For example, the other day, there was a news item that ChatGPT learned chemistry on its own; the engineers didn't plug in, you know, the periodical Table of Elements. It accessed information on the Internet., I should also add that ChatGPT is built for dialogue. Let me give you an example: I asked GPT to write a short essay on the concept of the soul in St. Thomas Aquinas. Now, I'm pretty familiar with the content of Aquinas and his vision of the soul. So, I knew whether or not it would be accurate, and it was very real. And then I said to ChatGPT, "Okay, Aquinas speaks of the soul in question 84 of the Summa Theologiae. Can you add some quotations from that?" It did, and it was right on. And then I said, "Aquinas also wrote a treatise called De Anima, which is his commentary on Aristotle. Can you bring in some of those ideas also" and it did! So, I helped ChatGPT to develop concepts that I wanted out of it. Now, the advantage is that I studied Aquinas for most of my life. So, I was very familiar with the ideas, but if you're not, you have ChatGPT at your disposal.  

I printed out the essay. I gave it to my professor of medieval philosophy. And I said, "What grade would you give this text?" And he said, "B minus." ChatGPT got a B minus from a professor of medieval philosophy! And then I told him this was generated by an AI. He replied, "No! I could never do something like this." And I said, "Try it. Try it." And he did. And he's scared. To go back to your question of whether or not we should be afraid of this, I think the answer is yes and no. I spoke with Sam Altman about a month ago, and he mentioned that this is something that concerns him due to the potential use for harm or by an evil agent using this technology. The ramifications of that, well, I'm not sure what they are, but the misuse of this technology is a genuine reason for us to be concerned., I am also not afraid because we are aware that the people who are developing this technology are aware of the need to maintain control over it.  

BC: When engaging with individuals at high levels of decision-making in the AI field and considering your Christian background as a priest committed to placing humans at the center of society, how do you integrate Christian ethics into technology? Could you share your experiences?

PL: It's not easy; we can't really force our worldview on people. But, what I have found with people like Sam Altman and Demis Hassabis, the director of the Google DeepMind AI project, is that if you correctly frame the issue, they are willing to be a part of a dialogue. Demis has been to the Vatican several times. Sam told me he's willing to come again soon. He's not sure about his traveling, but there are several people that I've already addressed that are willing to speak with him. So, I think we can become part of how they're developing this technology. So, instead of calling Sam Altman an evil person because he's not – even though Elon Musk says that – let's frame it within a conceptual scheme of human flourishing, "Sam, how can we make ChatGPT help human beings flourish and not the contrary?" And he said that sounds like something I want to do. I think that the more people that we speak with in the industry, I think, the more effect or, the more influence we're going to have.  

BC: When you bring these individuals to the Vatican, what aspects do they find most intriguing or interesting when engaging with representatives from the Catholic world?

PL: They're primarily interested in Pope Francis – everybody wants to meet Pope Francis. Of course, I don't think that's realistic. But I think that there are key players in the Vatican, like Monsignor Paglia, Monsignor Paul Tighe, and Cardinal Turkson, that can help guide the discourse on how to use these technologies to enhance human flourishing. It's really not a question of good and evil; it's a question of how we can support human beings. So, as you said, Pope Francis has also mentioned, "place the human being at the center of the technology." And so, if these technologies are being used in order to harm human beings, that's not good. I think  when people look at the Vatican, the developers are looking at the Vatican for a moral guide, for a kind of moral authority., The Pope is probably the number one moral authority in the world; he is respected by Catholics and non-Catholics alike. He has tremendous soft power, so to speak. Pope Francis also has his own priorities. Right now, it's the war in Ukraine, but he also understands that he has to be a part of the dialogue as his technology moves forward.  

BC: Father, thank you so much for sharing your insights. This has been a truly fascinating discussion.

PL: Great, I am glad to have explored some of these issues. I hope we can do it again!

Edited by Matthew Santucci

Note: The interview has been edited for clarity and coherence.