Matthew Santucci sat down with the Bishop of Viterbo, Orazio Francesco Piazza, on the feast day of Saint Bonaventure of Bagnoreogio. They discussed the importance of the medieval saint's theology as a source of harmony between faith and reason and how the impact of his work can be seen today, both as a guiding source in the Church and contemporary society. Saint Bonaventure significantly impacted the Franciscan Order, earning him the epithet of 'the second founder' for his work in quelling internal divisions within the order and developing a coherent understanding of St. Francis's theology. Saint Bonaventure is an enduring source of civic pride for Bagnoregio and has left a rich body of theological, philosophical, and mystic work on discovering God's beauty.
Matthew Santucci: Your Excellency, thank you for being here with us tonight. Can you start by telling us who was San Bonaventura of Bagnoregio and what was the focus of his theology?
Bishop Orazio Piazza: He is undoubtedly a figure with a very high theological, ecclesial, and pastoral profile. He is also a man who lived through a very difficult time. Let us bear in mind that he was present at the Second Council of Lyon; he addressed delicate issues such as disputes within the Church and religious orders. He was a man in whom one finds the sense of harmony, of consonance, of pacification. The theological – and philosophical – nuclei are many; he is a comprehensive figure. However, we can highlight at least three essential elements: anthropology, which is particularly relevant today, and thus we can say the figure of man, the centrality of man within the reality of creation and in the social dynamics. Obviously, then there is the centrality of Christ, Christocentrism, and finally, his extraordinary work of spiritual growth, which is so important today, this Itinerary in the Mind to God means not only finding God but also finding man himself. In fact, his Augustinian roots show the similarity of a process in which, starting from God, man finds himself.
Matthew Santucci: Can you elaborate a little on this concept of the encounter between reason and faith, also by looking at the writings of Pope Francis and how the pastoral theology of St. Bonaventure is evident in them?
Bishop Piazza: He indeed anticipates the dynamics of the dialogue of knowledge, even if he places them in gradualness, in a distribution which may seem asymmetrical, but if we look closely at the reciprocity between faith and reason, certainly in Evangelii Gaudium, but also Laudato Sì and Fratelli Tutti, he highlights this mutuality between knowledge and, therefore, shows that there cannot be a theology that does not know how to use reason or does not know how to travel and feel reason in such a way as to be able to make what one believes reasonable. It was the theory very well explained by Pope Benedict. However, it is precisely the comprehensibility of faith and its concrete translatability into man's life that necessitate dialogue, a dialogue that is not only made of reciprocity but of mutuality.
Pope Francis highlights this dialogical dimension but also brings to everyone's attention the lack of self-referentiality of all knowledge. I like to relate this to Edgar Morin with this dialogical profile of knowledge. Morin says there is no self-referentiality. A knowledge that becomes self-referential falls into fragmentation, and the fragmentation places the simple point of view as detached from the others.
The mutuality between knowledge, as we are reminded in Gaudium et Spes – namely in numbers 45 B and 46 A – is fundamental. It recalls this power also expressed by Bonaventure on the necessary relationship between faith and reason of this foundational dialogue. I think that today, starting from this principle, avenues of extraordinary quality are opening up, and we are taking into account that in our current situation and context, the responses of man, of society, and above all, in this very delicate issue of creation, so dear to Bonaventure – to the point which defines man as the conscience of creation – this form of collaboration becomes necessary, each with his own method, each with his own research conditions. But, moving on to the focus of what man is, creation is, what Pope Francis has called integral ecology and, if we like, the integral vision of man, thus making it clear, in a hermeneutical dynamic, that makes us understand the difference between the cultural contexts in which Bonaventure worked, with his thought, and today. However, we can grasp its great relevance because the principle highlighted was valid yesterday and is still valid today.
Matthew Santucci: And so, being a doctor of the Church, known as the "seraphic doctor," what does he represent for believers today? Is there still a cult of devotion, or is there something to be done to develop it more?
Bishop Orazio Piazza: Certainly, as in every historical period, the foundations are laid for a thought which constitutes a stage in a process. By the grace of God, in the continuity and discontinuity of cognitive processes, we see that each subject has its own particular connotation and collocation. However, the themes of ecology, the piece of creation, the theme of economy, the theme of sociality, the theme of the harmonious composition of relationships, the Fratelli Tutti, means that today even that temporal distance can be reduced because the principle of organization, the organizational dynamics of relationships and the quality of relationships constitute a great objective. It would be interesting – it certainly is interesting – in the reading of social economy because economic action always has a social impact.
These are topics that should be debated today, and certainly, at the base of this economy, there is also the affirmation of man's dignity and of his original asymmetrical condition of responsibility in the dynamics of creation and in social dynamics, for which even spirituality – the deep spirituality of Bonaventure, this ascension towards God – has an anthropological, social, ecological repercussion in an integral key to current events, which is certainly being developed. We know very well that there is a study center here in Bagnoregio that is dealing with these issues.
Matthew Santucci: And also the fact that here, in Bagnoregio, there is the relic of the "Santo Braccio," the Holy arm...
Bishop Orazio Piazza: I am a bishop who arrived a few months ago, but I perceived as a theologian – I came from an academic background, and after an experience of 9 years in another diocese – I came here and discovered the power of this figure that I studied, and who was certainly part of the development of my own theological journey.
The location of this figure is certainly important. It is a place, a crossroads of encounters and clashes. It is a crossroads where many figures have produced concrete actions in ecclesial, political, and social matters. And Bonaventura is significant for this place. He represents the origin, the memory, but also, in my opinion, even his name, Bonaventura, or "lucky." I can say this place is lucky that it keeps this memory alive, and I can say that I found an ecclesial and social context deeply touched by this figure of which they are proud, and I believe they are completely right.
