Pope Leo XIV received Cardinal Robert Sarah in private audience Monday, the first time the two men have formally met since Leo was elected Pope in May.

The content of their discussion was not made public, as is “usually” the case with these kinds of audiences, Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni told the Register.   

In a recent interview, the Vatican’s former chief liturgist said he was looking with “great confidence” to Leo XIV’s pontificate, adding that he believed the Holy Father was “bringing back the indispensable centrality of Christ.”

The Guinean cardinal told the Italian bishops’ conference newspaper Avvenire on Sept. 12 that he welcomed Leo’s “evangelical awareness” and how he is communicating that without the Lord, “we can do nothing, neither build peace, nor build the Church, nor save souls.”

He also praised the Pope’s “spirit of listening and dialogue” and his “prudent consideration of Tradition.” Only with a living Tradition that allows for the transmission of Divine Revelation could the Church exist, the cardinal said, adding that this is “all in perfect continuity with the teachings of the Second Vatican Council.”

Cardinal Sarah, 80, insisted that, regardless of the authentic Catholic rite they belong to, “all the baptized have citizenship” if they share the creed. He said the centuries-long diversity of rites in the Church has never created problems for the authorities because the unity of the faith was clear and recognized as being a “great treasure.”

“I wonder if a ritual that is over a thousand years old can be ‘banned,’” he asked, implicitly referring to Traditionis Custodes, Pope Francis’ 2021 motu proprio that resulted in sweeping restrictions on the traditional Roman rite. “If liturgy is also a source for theology, how can access to ‘ancient sources’ be prohibited? It would be like prohibiting the study of St. Augustine to those who want to reflect correctly on grace or the Trinity,” he said.

In the same interview, the cardinal spoke of the need to overcome two ideological visions in the Church “that feed off one another.” These are either wishing to erase or deny Tradition to assimilate into the world, or viewing Tradition as “crystallized and mummified,” removed from any fruitful process of history.

“The mission of the Church is unique and as such must be fulfilled in a spirit of communion,” he contended. “There are different charisms, but the mission is one and presupposes communion.”

Referring to his latest book, Does God Exist?: The Cry of Man Asking for Salvation (Cantagalli 2024), the cardinal pointed out that God has become a stranger to many people’s lives, replaced by “idols of all kinds.” Man has “dethroned God” and given up seeking the meaning of life, death, joy and suffering, he said. These have been replaced by wealth, power and “the possession of things, even people.”

But God is “not an idea, he is not a vaguely rational or emotional personal conviction,” Cardinal Sarah continued. “God is a certainty: the certainty that the Son of Man really existed and still dwells among us. Truth exists. The Incarnation took place. Just as 2025 years ago some met and recognized him, so today it is still possible to meet him, recognize him, follow him, and die for him.”

Recalling some aspects of the previous pontificate, the cardinal said the synodal dimension needs to be “deepened and clarified” to “avoid ideological drifts” that pit two ecclesiologies — the synodal and the communal — against one another.

“Communion is an end; synodality is a means, to be verified,” Cardinal Sarah said. “Communion is hierarchical, because that is how Jesus wanted his Church to be; synodality, as Pope Leo reminded us, is more of a style.”

Regarding Fiducia Supplicans, the 2023 Vatican declaration that allowed non-liturgical blessings of same-sex couples, Cardinal Sarah said he hoped it could be “clarified and perhaps reformulated.” He went on to say that he found it “theologically weak and therefore unjustified. It endangers the unity of the Church. It is a document to be forgotten.”

Asked if, given his advanced age, he might become a bridge between continents, Cardinal Sarah responded by saying that he tries to remind the “satiated and desperate” people of the North of the Gospel, and offer a “voice of hope for the South” which has “not lost the will to live but is held back by solvable problems which remain indissoluble because people have unmentionable interests.”

The cardinal said the Church in Africa can offer “that freshness of faith, that authenticity and enthusiasm that sometimes do not emerge in the West.” He called on the faithful not to forget “the very high price they are paying in terms of violent martyrdom: it will certainly be fruitful, the seed of new Christians.”

Monday’s audience with Pope Leo comes two months after the Holy Father sent Cardinal Sarah as his envoy to the 400th anniversary of the apparition of St. Anne in Sainte-Anne-d’Auray in Brittany, northwest France.

In a forceful homily at a solemn Mass marking the anniversary, Cardinal Sarah stressed the importance of Eucharistic adoration, and that the liturgy “is not a human spectacle” but is “imbued throughout with beauty, nobility and sacredness.” He also warned against diminishing religion to mere humanitarian action.

The cardinal invited the faithful to follow the example of St. Anne, the mother of the Blessed Virgin Mary, by loving and adoring the Lord above all things in a world that rejects God and has a false view of religion.

This article was originally published on the National Catholic Register.