Matthew Bunson, Vice President and Editorial Director of EWTN News, in an exclusive interview with Cardinal William Goh of Singapore, discusses His Eminence's reaction to the synodal processes, the dynamics of the College of Cardinals, and Singapore's unique cultural setting in light of the Pope's visit to Asia this coming September. 

I want to start with a question about yourself. Are you a native Singaporean? 

Yes. 

Could you speak to us about your faith journey, especially the journey leading to the priesthood, to your ordination as a bishop, and now to being a member of the College of Cardinals?

In hindsight, my faith journey, when I look at my life, is a faith-filled journey, but it is done through the grace of God. My family was not extremely religious, except perhaps for my mother. Being an introvert, when I was young, I would go to church to pray the Rosary at the age of seven instead of joining my classmates to play before class.

At the age of twelve, I began praying the Divine Office, although I didn't know what it was all about. Then, I became an altar server. I was also in the Crusaders, and we started the Rosary Club, where 100 young people would come every evening to pray the Rosary. In school, during recess, I would lead others in praying the Rosary.

Sixty students came to pray instead of going for recess and for food. Later, I was very much attracted to this vocation and joined the seminary. I was ordained. I was an assistant priest for a few years. Then, they sent me to Rome for further studies.

I came back and taught in the seminary for 22 years. I held all the different positions, from Dean of Studies to Rector. That was my last position, and then I was appointed bishop. But, parallel to what I was doing, I was also appointed as the spiritual director of the Catholic Spirituality Center, besides the Charismatic Renewal.

I am in the renewal movement and have conducted conversion experience retreats. This will be the 60th session that I've conducted. One retreat is about five days long. I must say that my own conversion experience came about because I conducted these retreats. I came to be really in touch with people's sufferings, real life, and their struggles as Catholics because, during that retreat, they would make what I always call "the deathbed confession."

The retreatants are appropriately prepared for confession, and it is really heartwarming. It changed my whole perspective on life. It's very different from my life in the seminary as a professor. You're always teaching, you're always reading, and it's more theoretical, but the retreats really help me put theology into practice. Looking back at my life, I see that God has always guided me.

How did you learn that you had been named a member of the College of Cardinals?

Just like all the other Cardinals. Pope Francis's way of announcement is at the Angelus. Somebody sent me a text message: your name was mentioned. I couldn't be bothered; I was busy preparing a homily. Then, a few more text messages came in.

What's the experience of being a member of the college, with all of the responsibilities? But that particular relationship with the Diocese of Rome?

Indeed, as a cardinal, we have greater responsibilities to the universal Church. However, so far, I've only attended two Consistories and one meeting because I am a Dicastery for Laity, Family, and Life member.

To be chosen as a cardinal—what Pope Francis has been doing—is a good idea. It's helpful for the Church to be inclusive and universal—we have Cardinals from all over the world.

The difficulty and the challenge will be getting the cardinals together to know each other well, especially when the time comes to vote for the Pope in the conclave, that will be necessary. Presently, most of us know each other, but not all speak Italian as well as some others, so that area of rapport among the cardinals will be necessary for greater communion.

Pope Francis is coming to Singapore. What does his visit here mean? I know that Saint John Paul II was here very briefly in 1986. First, what was that experience like? But then, what are your hopes for Francis's visit?

Pope Francis is always popular with many of our Catholics, and I think he is a beacon of hope, mercy, and compassion. That is his forte, trying to continue the work of Pope St. John Paul II and Pope Benedict. 

The theme of evangelization is very dear to the heart of Pope Francis. However, his way of evangelization is really to proclaim the joy of the Gospel, which includes welcoming people, being with the poor, and with the marginalized. In that sense, he will be able to promote greater unity and strengthen the faith of our Catholics, as well as inspire people of other faiths that the Church is not inward-looking but is actually at the service of humanity.

I believe that his coming will certainly not just inspire and renew the faith of our Catholics but also people who listen to him and people who are very appreciative of Pope Francis — in fact, the non-Catholic religious leaders here are all very appreciative of Francis, and they speak highly of him. 

He's embarked on this long process of synodality, and we're reaching the conclusion. You attended the Synod of Bishops last October. What was that experience like? 

What I liked about that Synod was the retreat and the small group sharing. In that group sharing, we truly were able to journey with each other, listen to each other without judgment, and accompany each other, especially when we were among bishops. It's much easier because we understand our struggles, difficulties, challenges, and aspirations. That's the good thing about the Synod, and I think that is how it works, not just for the Universal Church but also for the particular Church, the local Church. We need to listen and journey with each other so that there might be a greater understanding and communion between the clergy and the laity so that we walk as one and come together as one Church. 

I benefit from the Synod in that way. But when you have a plain, ordinary assembly where everybody is giving intervention, that becomes more sensitive because we cannot be as open or direct as we wish to be for fear that we may offend people with other views.

It takes courage to say what you must say and be open about it. There is also a subtle pressure that what we say if not appreciated by some quarters, may not go well. At the end of the day, although it has been underscored that the Synod is not a parliamentary session, which it is not, there is voting at the end.

Although it is not a parliamentary session, most people would consider the votes a consensus-making exercise. At the end of the day, the Holy Father makes the decision, just as he has done. In the area of consultation, it is helpful for the church.

It's very important for the prelates also to listen to the laity. Often, it has been said, or as some bishops have suggested, that there should be another level where it is really a synod of bishops. After hearing the laypeople and joining with them, there should be that level of Synod where the bishops come together. Otherwise, it cannot really be considered a theological dogmatic synod because not all are theologically trained. All those who vote are not theologically trained.

We might need to have another level where bishops work with the Holy Father to determine specific doctrinal issues. In terms of pastoral outreach, that kind of Synod would be helpful. But when it comes to doctrines, I think they are a bit different.

You've been conducting synodal sessions in the months after the first meeting of the Synod of bishops last year, the Synod on Synodality. What has that experience been like for you to meet with the faithful?

Our faithful—it's just like the Synod: How many were present? We are talking about the Universal Church, one billion. How many were present? It's the same for the local Church. About 600 people came for the plenary assembly. Of course, before that, we had many conversations online. 

I think those who participated found it very enriching; even for the clergy who participated, they will be able to field and identify with the aspirations and struggles of our people. Journeying is of extreme importance. What we are trying to do now is we want to get the clergy, first and foremost, to journey together.

They also must learn the synodal process. The process is important; the destination is another question, but the process must first begin. We have already started with the selected groups of people, those who have responded, organizations, and clergy. We take this to the districts, and then after that, we will gather in plenary assembly for the whole archdiocese. The response has been very positive, and much work remains to be done. Sometimes, we are working from different perspectives, and this is where there is a lot of misunderstanding and lack of support between the clergy and the laity.

You mentioned the process of synodality and the destination. What is your hope for the destination? 

We are one Church, and our lay people and priests will work together as one. I believe, and I think it's also essential, that Pope Francis has mentioned the same as Pope Benedict, that the work of mission is the obligation of every Catholic. It is not just the work of priests alone. Everyone has a responsibility, a differentiated responsibility, but everyone is responsible. The vision of this archdiocese is to build a vibrant, evangelizing, and missionary Church; that is our vision. This synodal process will engage our lay people and help our priests and the laity work together for the same common vision. 

You've given retreats, and you have had a chance to talk and hear from lay people. What are the biggest pastoral challenges for the archdiocese? It is a very multi-ethnic reality; you have some of the highest urban densities in the world. What are your biggest pastoral challenges here?

The retreats are different from the questions you're asking. With retreats, there are more personal issues; most people are dealing with broken relationships, wounded relationships, divorces, and those having issues with same-sex unions and gender ideology. These are the issues most of the issues that are dealt with in retreats are basically family, interpersonal relationships, wounded by priests, wounded by lay people, wounded by your friends, and family members. What they really need is forgiveness and healing, fundamentally, and that comes about through reconciliation with God. 

If we talk about the multi-ethnic challenges, in Singapore, we have 1.5 million, or 1.6 million, non-citizens and half a million permanent residents. The population is 3.5 million. 

Every Singaporean practically speaks English. Even if not all can speak it very well, they will understand. Even the elderly, who have not been educated, also can understand English. 

Dealing with the migrant community, which is quite a large community, needs to be integrated into the larger community. We have quite a significant number in the migrant community, not as big as in other countries, but it is substantial enough. We need to integrate them and respect their culture. 

For the other ethnic community, I don't think we have real issues. Even though they are from an ethnic community, not all of them, but the more significant part of the community, prefer to attend English Mass. English has become our common medium. 

We also have many migrants from China. Their English is not that good, but our Chinese community can be empowered to reach out to them regarding the work of evangelization.

Does the Christian population here make up about 19-20% of the total population? For Catholics, what are the opportunities here for ecumenical outreach and interreligious dialogue? This seems a vibrant place for that.

This is unique in Singapore. We try to make Singapore an icon for ecumenism and interreligious dialogue. It's difficult for other countries to duplicate what we are doing. Singapore has excellent, harmonious religious relationships with all the different religions. We know the religious leaders by name and are friends with them. We do not have any issues in this regard. If anything needs to be discussed, we will speak to them and be very friendly and supportive of each other.

We visit each other for religious celebrations, are often present for meetings, and share a lot of mutual respect and appreciation. Also, in Singapore, we have a law that forbids anyone from speaking ill of another religion. That helps a lot and makes everybody respectful.

In that sense, there is already a lot of interfaith sharing among Catholics and religious leaders. Regarding ecumenism, we also have very good terms with Christians, and we support each other. Of course, we can always do more. I started an office we call AIRDECS. It's an archdiocesan office for interreligious and ecumenical dialogue, but our resources are limited. My time is also limited; I cannot be everywhere. Whenever possible, I try my best to reach out to Christians, especially non-Christians.

Like the Church everywhere, the Church here is facing pressures from secularism and relativism. You've spoken about the importance of defending truth and justice. What does that mean? 

It's important for us that in the face of this secularism or the -isms, individualism, and so on, the Church has to be truthful in what we proclaim. I do not believe that we should change the Gospel message or dilute the Gospel message. The truth has to be spoken because the truth sets us free. But of course, truth has to be spoken with charity; that is very important. But I don't believe that we should try to compromise the Gospel, and I fear today that even Church leaders are compromising the Gospel.  

Jesus never compromised the Gospel, even for the adulterous woman. He says, I do not judge you, I do not condemn you, but please, sin no more. I think that has to be mentioned. 

This is the importance of truthfulness, mercy, and compassion. Looking at the world today, there are so many injustices. What can we do? In some countries, not in Singapore, they are being persecuted by political authorities because of their religion, sometimes because of their race. So, how do we speak with those people in authority? How do we dialogue? 

Pope Francis's direction is certainly the direction we need to follow. We need to dialogue; we need to listen; we need to strengthen trust. At the end of the day, we all have the same goal. Humanity all has the same goal: we want happiness. But not happiness only, true happiness. We don't want just love. We want faithful, fruitful love.

Singapore has been described as a kind of bridge between the West and the East. What can Singapore and this region show to the wider Church in terms of harmony, and also, what direction do you think we need to go?

Singapore is more of a first-world country than the rest. That's why when I attend the FABC meeting—the Federation of Asian Bishops' Conference—the whole world is there: very affluent countries, very backward countries, some poor, some with political issues, some with religious suppression. It's very diverse and, in that sense, a bit difficult. But for us, as Church, Singapore can be a model in terms of how we remain faithful in an affluent country. 

Singapore's challenges are basically first-world problems. We can identify very much with Europe, where the problems that Europe is facing are not the problems of Africa or Asia. It is sometimes a continental issue rather than the issue of the universal Church. 

We can really help promote religious harmony; that is our strength because of the work that we have been doing, especially to help governments. In Singapore, the beautiful thing about our government is that we see things as a multiracial, multireligious country; we are not a secular country. We have a sect of government to ensure fairness and impartiality, even if most of the members of the government belong to some faith and are very staunch in their faith. 

This is where Singapore can show the way. Even in a very cosmopolitan, very diversely religious country, we can live together so long as there's respect and sensitivity to each other; we can work together. In Singapore, there are so many races as well as some ethnic groups of people; we can live together as one. 

There are 44 other countries in the world that know how to live harmoniously. You need to have a good government, a strong government, to support the work of religions and NGOs.

So, does the relationship between the church and state have to be respectful?

Yes, in Singapore, the state sees us as partners. We are partners with the government because it's for the common good of the people. We take care of the spiritual needs, we help the government rule justly, we express our views, and the government is very grateful when they have certain moral and social issues. 

They consult religious leaders. At the end of the day, they have to make the decision because it's a multireligious, multiracial country.

Asia is one of those parts of the Church, like Africa, where the Catholic population is growing. Do you see the importance of Asia increasing in this century, and if so, what can the rest of the Church learn from Asia as an experience? I know we're talking about a very diverse set of cultures and countries, but the Church seems to be growing here, and it's very vibrant.

The problem with established Christian countries like in Europe, for example, is that faith has become too institutional, and religion has become ritualized. It becomes a routine; it becomes a custom, even. 

It is not a personal faith. They don't have this personal encounter with Jesus. In Asia, many of us have been converts for at least two or three generations, and converting from one faith to another is not easy. You'll be marginalized initially. They have not only studied the faith; they have encountered Jesus. That is what my conversion experience retreat tries to do. 

The conversion experience retreat at first when I started it was meant for lapsed Catholics. I wanted to bring back the lost sheep. But then, after that, many members of the Church organization said, "We also never experienced God. We also want to join." It became for all. I believe their life will change when we get a person to encounter Jesus personally—that Jesus is real, that Jesus is life; they encounter his mercy, love, and forgiveness. I honestly believe all these ideological struggles, whether it's gender ideology, same-sex union, abortion, or euthanasia, come about because you are operating on the level of hate. 

On the level of hate, you can twist and turn and argue from every side. If we encounter Jesus, we Catholics know he is our Lord and Savior. You will accept whatever is spoken in the scriptures. You will live your life according to what Jesus has lived and taught, even though you might not agree, but because we have faith in Jesus.

My pastoral approach in dealing with people who are disagreeable with the Church is: "Okay, it's all right." I don't force; we cannot force our doctrines on these people. I invite them to know Jesus. I invite them to fall in love with Jesus. I believe Jesus will take care of them. And Jesus will. If you love Jesus so deeply, you will surely want to live like him.

But who are those people who are grumbling about specific moral issues of the Church? These are all ordinary Catholics, nominal Catholics, because they have no faith.

So your message to them is Jesus. 

Yes!

We need to have a personal relationship, and the Church has to provide the opportunity. It's not just preaching and teaching. That is important, but that comes after. Even in the early Church, what did we do? In the early Church, the Didache comes after being evangelized. The kerygma has to be preached first, then the Didache, then the teaching.

But we are putting the cart before the horse. We are teaching, and hopefully, they will receive the kerygma. All over the world, even in Singapore, that is my fear with young people today if they are brought up in a traditional Catholic family, then if the parents are weak in their faith, after confirmation, as Pope Francis always says, it's a farewell, bye-bye because they have no faith.

It is a routine faith. It is not a real faith. What we are trying to do now, even for young people, is to give them a deep encounter with Jesus. We have the office of young people doing parallel to what I'm doing for the adults. 

We give them a good experience of Jesus.

Their lives change. 

With so many influences on young people, you've mentioned that this office is being developed. If you were to message young people today, what would be your immediate message to somebody who's being challenged by social media or secular influences?

What is most important for young people is that we build faith communities. They need to be supported in their faith. That is why, in order to keep young people within the faith, we need to help them form faith communities where they can support each other. Two things are critical for me in helping our young people deal with all the challenges in the world: an encounter with Jesus and belonging to a faith community.

They will grow. As their faith grows, they will know what to do and how to deal with all these societal challenges. Of course, I think there is also an important part to play—after kerygma, there is the Didache—we also need to continue to preach and to teach.

One reason young people have left the church is that they feel they cannot connect with the Church; they cannot connect with its doctrines. We need more theologians and lay theologians, perhaps, to bridge the ecclesiastical language and the ordinary language.

The problem is that we are trained in theology and scripture, so we tend to use this kind of ecclesiastical language. It's our cup of tea. We use that language so often that we don't realize that the people in the world don't understand what we're talking about, and so we cannot connect with young people.

We need to have a bridge. This is where social media and all these things will try to make it more palatable for young people to understand, appreciate, and share with their friends.

Your Eminence, the last question I have concerns one of the things that's very clear in Singapore: the importance of family. Pope Francis talks about respecting the generations and having bridges between the old and the young. What is the secret here? Why is that still so much a part of life here? And what is a lesson there for other cultures to learn?

Not only within the Catholic Church, which is definitely there, but generally in Asian society, we tend to be focused more on the family: family piety and filial piety; all these are very important. However, that is also being eroded away because of Western influence, affluence, and people's desire to have a better life.

They will leave; they will migrate. Both parents are working to have a better life. The cost of living is high. There are many threats against the family, even in Singapore. Although we are trying to protect the family, we have 11 organizations that deal with family life.

We have to work hard at it. I wouldn't say that we are doing extremely well, but because we belong to this Asian culture, the family dimension is always important, but we need to protect it. 

With affluence, family is threatened, parents are working, and we have small families. In fact, we are below the replacement population as well. The younger people are not interested in having families. It means commitments, children, job, career, and their own social time are taken away. 

We are promoting this. The beautiful part is that the government is working with us all. We have the Ministry of Social and Family, which tries to promote family life. Their programs are very good.

We complement each other. We are grateful that the government also sees the importance of growing and strengthening the family and healing people who divorce and those from dysfunctional families.

Your Eminence, I'm so grateful for your time. I'm looking forward to further coverage, especially with Pope Francis's visit, and to see what happens here in the church in Singapore. 

Thank you. 

God bless you and your labors.

Thank you.